Rejecting veteran teachers to keep them from moving up the ladder for pay increases means students miss out on getting to know and learn from elderly people.
Teach for America is popular because they remain at the bottom rung of the funding ladder and leave after a few years. This creates a revolving door of cheap teachers.
If TFA novices become real teachers the school district will likely try to push them out of the classroom later too!
Disrespect of veteran teachers should not be part of a democratic school system that opens its doors to all children.
Yet most teachers know that with every year of experience they’re valued less.
Teachers who work year-to-year bettering their professional capabilities deserve the increases in their salaries and respect of those in their communities, and school administrators.
We might remember an elderly teacher who didn’t teach well, but it’s also easy to recall a young teacher who didn’t do a good job. Like any profession, we find great, good, and mediocre teachers at all age levels.
Here are the benefits of having an older teacher.
- They have stories to tell.
- They know history sometimes firsthand.
- They have improved their teaching through trial and error.
- They are happy when you visit years later.
- They know ways to overcome bad curriculum.
- They are cool and collected.
- They will speak out on behalf of their students.
- They recognize a problem before it gets worse.
- They will listen to a new teacher without judging.
- They can identify a learning disability quickly.
- They know everybody in the school district.
- They are fixtures in the community.
- They can tell when students aren’t telling the truth.
- They recognize good school reform from B.S.
- They see beyond bad behavior.
- They have been fooled and won’t be fooled again.
- They are grateful to be alive and working.
- They don’t take guff from inexperienced administrators.
- They provide support to young teachers.
- They help Teach for America novices.
- They are funny and tell good jokes.
- They are tested (I don’t mean VAM).
- They don’t take themselves too seriously.
- They are like a grandmother or grandfather.
- They encourage parents.
- They are trusted.
- They sometimes taught the child’s parents.
- They bake cookies and cakes, or they know where to buy good ones.
- They talk sports and will go to games and root for their students.
- They attend plays and band concerts.
- They are quirky and students like quirky.
- They provide a sense of consistency.
l had several late 70ish (one even older) teachers in the late ‘50s, ‘60s, and beyond in college. I’m grateful I knew them.
In first grade when I learned to read my young teacher worked with an older teacher who looked like the woman in the picture above. What a team! I can still see them in the classroom planning.
My elderly 5th grade teacher had flaming red hair, and she would always put her lipstick on at her desk after lunch. At first, she scared me.
One day after I had finished reading my geography assignment, she gave me some paper and said, “Nancy, draw what you see.” It was a picture of rice paddies. Why would I draw that? But I did draw and color it and she said something like, “Nice job, Sweetie!” After that, she was my friend. There was something good about overcoming my fear of her.
Not only was she a good social studies teacher, she also stocked her classroom with Classic Illustrated Comics and biographies of famous people. It was there where I met Edmond Dantès in The Count of Monte Crisco, Olympic figure skater Carol Heiss, and many others.
Young teachers are great. They are new and eager to learn. Many of us were young when we started teaching.
But it is a disservice and sad omission to deny children the joy of knowing and learning from older, experienced teachers.
Since there’s a teacher shortage, maybe it’s time to welcome older retired teachers back, under the right conditions, of course.
Indeed! They do it here too, because yes, older teachers tend to be more expensive. I remember a Principal saying to his experienced staff that what he really wanted was “young and dynamic!” when what he meant was “young and cheap.”
I remember one of our staff, an older woman who had only recently qualified as a teacher(so, older, but cheap), who had so much life experience and wisdom to share with the kids. Unfortunately she was kicked out in school cutbacks a couple of years later, because new teachers these days are all on short term contracts and easier to get rid of.
That’s why corporations and politicians fight tenure isn’t it. I hate hearing that. It’s in the their defunding plan.
Thanks, Sue. Real examples always make the message clearer.
While all these are happening, how will the school run a successful PLC. May be they miss that Professionalism and they run the learning community only. I have seen that too. New teacher asking what do you know better than me. I have studied recently and you have studied long time back, so I know better. List of failure schools are raising and accountability is adjusted to show success and difficulty level of questions are dropped to show success. Education is not like before, students are not thinking they are clicking the answers only. Sad story will continue.
Where is your data. Test scores are decreasing even in predominantly white and Asian scores. You have generalized information: “You know what’s current…” Not necessarily true. More and more school systems are relying on teachers- specifically new teachers who will comply in order to keep their jobs- rather than use current research- based practices of which many senior teachers have kept abreast. The difference is senior teachers who understand what needs to be done are pushed into retirement. Why? – political propaganda which you have just espoused ” Senior teachers don’t know current practices
” Why: to save money in teacher salaries. Education is the only system in which experience and expertise is not respected. You respect senior doctors, lawyers, fireman, contractors, etc because they have honed their craft. Why don’t you have the same attitude towards your senior colleagues propaganda started during the No Child Left Behind era which targeted high paying teachers. Follow the money. You will be in the same position in the future. Will you be ready to be put out to pasture in your sixties especially by a young whippersnapper who doesn’t know what’s up yet?
Where is your data showing that the way those texts you refer to measure knowledge are accurate? In fact, many of them are far from it and do not accurately reflect individual ways of learning💬 nor creative problem solving– all highly sought after skills in the work force today. Be careful of equating deep thinking with current testing formats.
This week a colleague asked me for some help with a reluctant writer she was counseling. I searched for my Peter Elbow in my bookcase full of teaching resources I’ve accumulated over the last 20 years.
As I looked through hundreds of books and workbooks, it struck me how much of these books I have simply assimilated into my practice.
That is what the veteran teacher offers. We are walking books full of theory and best practice,
Thank you NANCY.
So true! I’m looking at Elbow’s book right now! One of my favorites by the way, Jo! Thank you for commenting!
Yes, you are so true!. Veteran teachers are walking books. I remember when I moved to a new school one of the veteran teacher in that school came and asked me, what do you know more than me? I just smiled, After teaching 20 years I made perfect score in teachers exam, I said. That teacher asked me how much you paid to get that score? What material do you use, to teach, I said I have it in my brain. Experience is what we learn daily, it is not in one book, it is every where and we need to go around and collect. It is readily available with experienced teachers. I am still continuing in the same school with 27 years of experience with the same veteran teacher of that school.
My guess is a younger teacher is looking up to you now like you admired the older teacher! Thank you for sharing!
Yes, thank you Nancy, and thank you Jo! You are both treasures for your knowledge, your experience, your perceptiveness, and your compassion. One of the best experiences I had as a student was starting French class in 9th grade. The teacher that had been hired was in Paris and was not able to start teaching until a number of weeks into the school year. The school brought in a retired French teacher. She was wonderful! From the first moment she spoke to us only in French and used gestures to get her meaning across. We didn’t use a book the entire time she was there, but we learned a tremendous amount. Of course dedicated teachers learn from their experience and have so much to offer their students.
Thank you Sheila. You too are a treasure.
Great story, Sheila, and Jo is right!
Unless that retired, old teacher needs money, what could possibly draw an older teacher back into today’s classroom? Large classes, limited resources, micromanagement,… as much as we love the teaching profession, desperation is the only thing that would draw most of us back. Many of us have already been thrown out once or twice. What is the incentive to reentering a profession that will probably do the same again?
Yes, you’re right. I did end with “…under the right conditions, of course.” I knew someone would remind me of what you just said and you said it well. Thank you!
If you believe that, it is time that you leave education. I am a 67 year d middle school teacher of science
I live it even with all the severe problems. I am there for a purpose.
I think her point was that the conditions should be better for teachers so they are attracted to the profession even as they grow older.
Nancy more of these comments need to get mainstreamed. This is kind of like preaching to the choir some how this needs to get out to Joe public. Older teachers know how to pace themselves when I student taught while going to Eastern Michigan University I had the privilege of learning from an older gal teaching Kindergarten (past 60s) she ran circles around me. I was dead every day at the end. Ole Mrs. Jones that was her name was still going. I only taught a half day and she taught a.m. and p.m. Experience, now that I am retired, had something to do with it. Good luck in getting it out there.
Thanks, James. I always enjoy those stories. EMU is a great school. I went to CMU also good, although education is having a tough go of it there in the state.
I find it impossible to let go,an opportunity to tell a story from a teacher at n Skokie, Illinois. He was a retired gentleman who moved to Tennessee and joined our bird club. Finding out that I was a young teacher, he would always tell me stories. One story told of how an old veteran had cursed and stormed out of an inservice he felt was worthless. The more I talked to him, the more I realized that the leader of the inservice had been none other than Harold Bloom, who was in the process of explaining his taxonomy. Sometimes those old guys have a good look at things. I hope so anyway. I have been at this for almost 40 years.
Harold Bloom! I need to join a bird club and see who I will meet. Thank you, Roy!
They call it TIP instead of PAR, but it’s the same thing. Here’s how they ramm out older, more expensive, and more vocal teachers in Australia:
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2019/06/26/netw-j26.html
Similar in the U.K:
https://www.theguardian.com/careers/2017/apr/25/ageism-work-35-years-teaching-abrupt-end
t’s sad really that the unions would do this to workers.
I’ve read the first article on your list and believe me, it was going on long before Julia Gillard – this is the first I’ve heard of Federal Labor doing this .- in fact it’s a state issue. Here in Victoria the centralised system was out in 1993, when the state was taken by a nut case politician called Jeff Kennett. He was not a Labor Premier, but a Liberal(our name for the conservatives). Jeff sold off everything not nailed down and thousands of people lost their jobs. There was even a term for losing your job here, due to Kennett: you were “Jeffed”. Other states hung on to the better system for a while. If Jeff had remained in the top job another term, they were going to have something called “Schools of the Third Millennium, a science fictional, futuristic name for making schools completely autonomous and giving principals complete power. We do have the issue of global budgets, so that not only older teachers are out,but specialists like teacher librarians, because Principals hold the purse strings, but there are still some rules and regulations. That was NOT Labor!
Thank you for letting me join.
This post kind of piggybacks to one posted here about having to relocate because the person could not get a job in their home state due to ageism and/or too much experience
I had A very similar experience
I am certified in English, history, music, and ESL.
I spent a total of 10+ years in Connecticut (my home state) trying to get a teaching job. I subbed, did long-term subbing, and worked as a paraprofessional during that time. I had excellent reviews, and was very involved in the schools I worked at.
Every time a position came up that I was qualified for, I would apply. I applied to suburban schools, urban schools – anywhere. I applied to parochial schools. Nothing
Most of the time I never heard anything back. I would inquire about the status and was told they had found other candidates. This went on for years
Finally, at the last job in CT, I was a para. I originally worked 1on 1 with a student who was hard of hearing. I had excellent reviews. I volunteered at many school events. Even fellow teachers said I was good.
I applied for open positions. Nothing. The school asked me to cover a 9th grade English class for 6 weeks while a teacher was on medical leAve. I did so willingly and well. Still, I was overlooked for jobs that I was qualified for. I would be told they chose someone better qualified. When I would meet the person, it was a young teacher, fresh out of college with no experience at all. I was told they wanted someone the kids could “relate to”, even though I Already worked in the district
Finally, things came to a head when I started getting bullied on the job. Things would go missing from my mailbox. I would receive anonymous notes saying rude things about me or my children (my kids attended this school). I had my tires deflated. When I brought this evidence to the district, I was told they could do nothing. I know it was a co-worker. I was threatened by my supervisor, saying that they would make sure I never worked in the state of CT because I brought up these complaints of harassment. I was given the worse jobs available as a para. People with less experience got better jobs and I was constantly turned down for teaching positions.
Finally, i had enough. I filed a complaint and got a lawyer who specialized in employment law. It was evident I was being discriminated against because of my age (I was in my 40’s). I ended up winning the complaint, but now I knew I would never teach in CT for real
I started applying in neighboring states. I had numerous offers in Virginia, where I eventually moved.
I ended up losing my home in CT, moving away from family, and having to start a new life at 47. I’ve now been here in VA for 5 years, and I feel respected at my job by my peers. I have been awarded for excellence in my district, and have excellent reviews.
I just wanted to share my story so that if you are feeling like you’ll never get a real teaching job or you feel like no one will hire you if you are over a certain age, there is Hope.
What a great, uplifting comment to read! Thank you for giving hope to a lot of teachers, Molly, and I am glad to hear you are doing well. You went through a lot. Best wishes! I hope you teach for many years to come.
Several years back, when I was working on my doctorate, my asst. principal, during my evaluation conference, asked me, “When are you going to retire?” That was probably 6 ears ago. I now have my doctorate, so I’m one of the highest paid teachers in the district.
During my doctoral coursework, a school administrator in the program, made the comment, “Teachers with more than 15 years have nothing new to offer.” I was stunned. And angry. When I started teaching, everyone leaned from each other. We all had something to offer. That’s not the mentality now amongst administrators, many of whom spend less that 5 years in the classroom.
Three years ago, in an attempt to force me out, I was involuntarily transferred from the high school to the PK-3 school. I think they expected me to get pissed off and quit/retire or totally bomb once I got down there. I didn’t do either and have received the best evaluations I’ve ever gotten in that district and my students, and their parents, think I’m a rock star. I suspect there will more attempts to push me out even though I am financially unable to retire yet.
Many of my colleagues, as well as friends and relatives who are teachers around the country, have similar stories as they neared retirement. One thing I’ve noticed though, is that it happens mostly to female teachers, not older male teachers. Just my observations over the years.
I am going through this right now up here in southern Oregon trying to restart a teaching career for a few years until I am able to retire completely. After having to move up here at my hometown after being illegally dumped from a Nevada school district in 2008, I subbed for a few years in both certified and classified work, and then found a parapro job that helped me at least get vested in Oregon PERS, but because I am a “tier 3” (OPSRP), I cannot get a monthly pension check until I am at least 68 years old at a piddling 230 a month thanks to being forced to work part time. It is almost impossible to secure a full-time classified position here; the schools typically pick somebody who is already at the school site. It is much worse when you are older. I am trying to get certified work, even in special education (I did a temporary hire position last spring), and I have so far wound up empty handed. I don’t want to do classified work anymore; I am afraid if I am forced to do menial work like playground duty instead of classroom work, I will get hurt on the job and that will be the end of my working career. I probably need to work another 8 or 10 years to be able to retire. Age discrimination is real in this business.
I will add I am 66 years old now. I was only recently able to get my two Oregon endorsements (elementary and special education) because of finances. I just don’t see any improvement for me financially because of discrimination. I would be set if I could teach again even if for three or four years.
It is baffling that at a time when teachers are needed so badly school districts aren’t fighting over hiring teachers. I wish you luck.
Older teachers are often stuck in PAR as a way to humiliate them and get them to resign. Here is some concrete evidence that it is older and African-American Teachers being targeted with PAR and other punitive programs:
Just click on files and scroll down to see the data.
https://berkeleyschoolslaborcaucus.org/important-files
I never heard of this. Thank you for sharing.
This man explains PAR and how it’s being used disproportionally on older and African-American teachers. It’s a long video, but worth your time.
Thank you! This is a huge concern.
Here is more information about PAR.
https://digitalscholarship.unlv.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3432&context=thesesdissertations
PAR is growing rapidly in Nevada. I believe the unions have brought PAR in as a means to negotiate with the state and districts, so they can work together to reduce pension liabilities. When PAR pushes teachers out before their full retirement , the state saves loads of money.
Sad and troubling to see the union’s negative role in this. Thank you for sharing. I will try to do a post on this. Keep me updated and if you would like to be involved in some kind of write-up let me know.
Wow! Working against their own. Need to look into this.
Nevada has no real teacher unions since they do not have the right to strike and Nevada is a “right to work” state. Teachers are treated like trash there, and their “unions” are little more than subsidiaries of the districts. I have had intimate knowledge of how things operate there. McDonald’s workers have more rights than Nevada teachers.
They also have programs like their separation programs in order to coerce teachers over 50 with more than 15 continuous years in their districts. This is to make room for more relatives of current teachers or administrators while getting rid of the teachers students really need but may cost more in salaries and pensions.
PAR was sort of like IMPACT in Washington D.C. It’s all part of the épuration sauvage (wild purge) that the Education Reformers imposed on vulnerable teachers, who are usually senior women and women of color. During NCLB and Race to the Top and the Rhee- ish-ness that took hold of our school systems, resulted in people believing that teacher turnover was actually good for students (thank you to Thomas S. Deen out of Stanford for publishing this notion). As a result, a quiet (the panels who recommend termination meet in private, and the teacher can’t defend herself against what the PAR coach says to the panelist) mob justice ensued, and lingers today. It’s important to identify what’s happening as an organized abuse of power, rather than just a social phenomenon. Until recently, nobody has acknowledged the vulnerability and pathos of those who have been hurt as a result of these hostile abuses of power.
Their own? The union doesn’t see all teachers as their own. Some are more equal than others. Dal Lawerence, a white man, started PAR and referred to the teaching work force as “faults.” He sat in his union position for 30 years and not only allowed, but orchestrated the termination of hundreds upon hundreds of teachers who did nothing wrong.
http://www.turnweb.org/posts/in-memory-of-dal-george-lawrence/
How sad. Thanks for sharing.
Those kinds of practices, or similar, are taking place around the country I’m afraid.