Questions about whether America’s high schools should drop Advanced Placement (AP) classes, created a debate on social media. The fact that AP is driven by an outside money-making nonprofit, sometimes bothered parents and teachers, but not enough to end AP. Or, it did not seem to matter to some.
The overriding question could be why are so many parents and teachers convinced that students must do college work in high school? Students should not be denied challenging work, but the fervor with which many parents and teachers have bought into AP is worrisome.
Also, many people like to tout that AP is best, but it is difficult to find recent research to indicate that AP helps students do better in college. The one Stanford study indicates difficulty in showing causality—meaning students who do well in college after taking AP classes, probably would have done well anyway.
A friend suggested that I discuss how AP has become embedded in high schools. Whether you like AP or not it is very much a part of the high school landscape. That all of us can agree on.
Since public education should involve debate, I thought I would share some of the ideas presented the last few days about AP.
The Pros
- Parents like that paying for AP exams in high school shortens the time and expense of college in the long run.
- The perception by many is that AP is the most rigorous coursework offered by the high school.
- Some parents believe public schools failed and require AP to challenge students.
- Students and parents understand that AP in high school will get you a high ranking and into good universities.
- A lot of parents like the idea of high school students doing college coursework. They believe this will get them a better job someday.
- Some parents remember and are proud that they took AP in high school.
- Very few, if any, were concerned about David Coleman (Common Core) as CEO of The College Board.
- Parents like to claim that AP is not elitist. Few seem to think their schools will not pay for those who cannot afford the exams.
- Some parents are excited about middle school and AP high school-like courses there.
- Some parents like their students to limit AP classes, and they don’t care if their students take the AP test.
- A few parents expressed their liking for the International Baccalaureate program instead of AP. This program raises questions worthy of a post on its own.
- Parents and teachers like the consistency of the program (standards).
The Cons
- Stress is mentioned quite a bit.
- Many believe students are not developmentally ready for college material in high school but feel pushed to take these courses to get into a good college.
- Some worry about dual enrollment and Honors classes getting short shrift.
- There is concern that students will miss out on socialization and the fun activities synonymous with teens and high school.
- It was noted that AP classes could present a false sense of accomplishment and students are not developmentally ready, and don’t understand, the college coursework.
- There is concern that AP classes involve mostly teaching to a test.
- Many parents are troubled that an outside organization seems to be in control of their child’s future.
- Some AP classes are criticized for not doing labs or projects, but only focusing on rote memorization for the test.
- A lot of parents don’t like The College Board in general.
- Parents and teachers don’t like the standards and the tests.
- Colleges should reconsider AP.
- Here is a report about The College Board rewarding DeKalb County, Georgia for enrollment, not achievement.
I may add to these lists as time goes on. Thank you for all the feedback.
One thing I saw in a comment was the opportunity to compare to other schools based on the same standards.
There are a number of standardized tests out there that allow comparison of students at each school attaining benchmarks. These benchmarks are always grade-level. If you want to compare how districts do getting students to grade level, these can provide good information.
But what about comparing how schools are educating students above grade level? The SAT, ACT, Smarter Balanced, etc. don’t provide that. If I want to know that, I can only think of information from AP to look at. I can look at the macro level, such as how many AP classes a school offers and the percent of students who get a passing grade, but it can also be helpful for deciding classes. If I have a choice between AP Chemistry or Dual Enrollment Chemistry, what percent of students got a 4 or 5 on the AP exam? If it is a low number, Dual Enrollment may be the better course.
Also, given that my school district refuses to have honors courses except for ELA and math (and those are mostly a joke), I strongly suspect there would be no advanced coursework if not for our AP classes.
Standards and school comparisons of test scores are controversial. They almost always show poor schools with poorer scores and wealthy scores with high scores. And there are always schools at the bottom. When they are closed there will be more schools at the bottom.
I wonder if your school district refuses honors courses in order to lean towards privatization. That’s what it is all about…starve what’s public and move in the money making ventures.
Thanks, Joshua!
I understand the difference demographics make. With Michigan talking about closing underperforming schools, I argued that they should be adjusted for demographics as some of those schools were likely doing quite well with the greatly impoverished population they serve and that several ‘top’ schools were likely performing quite poorly when adjusted for demographics and should have some state attention focused on them.
Our school district has at least three reasons.
First, they claim honors courses cost more money. I’m sure there is some training and scheduling logistics, but they have never been able to provide any proof that they cost more to operate.
Second, they claim that they would have to develop the curriculum. I’ve suggested that they purchase the curriculum from other highly regarded school districts, but they still insist that our employees must modify it to make it better.
Third, our district has a long history of egalitarianism to almost “Harrison Bergeron” levels. Any acceleration or above-grade-level instruction is a fight. Not having AP classes would look bad, but no one tracks the number of honors classes or other acceleration.
Our district does not like privatization, but has had to in the past in order to cut costs. We now pay significantly less for maintenance and bus drivers than we did in the past.
Interesting and it sounds typical. Let’s hope you don’t run into the same problems as TN with maintenance and bus drivers. Thanks, Joshua.
AP classes and tests used to be for the truly “gifted” students. I think all children are naturally bright in their own way, but very few are “gifted”. Parents now a days, like to see their kids as the “gifted”. I grew up with a “gifted” sibling and life was not always easy for him or the family since we were a blue collar family. Parents are so engrossed in their children and so desperate for them to be better than “the others” that they push and push for more instead of letting children be children. It’s competition among parents that drives this. When you hook the parents, you get the kids. It’s all a scheme and the kids are paying the price…..suicide rates up, childhood depression up, anxiety rates up, behavioral problems up etc etc etc. PARENTS ARE THE PROBLEM!
Students who qualify as gifted take AP classes but these classes are not specially designed for gifted students–not in the least. Thanks for your comment, Lisa.
In my district, all middle and high school students can take pre-AP or AP courses without teacher recommendation (except for advanced math). My experience is limited to middle school. The majority of my pre-AP students were capable, but not very enthused about the workload. A number of students had significantly lower reading abilities. If I held every student to the same standard, many would have failed and I would have been on the hot seat. It was commonly assumed that most parents wanted their children in pre-AP classes because the behavior was better, which in truth it often was. In my opinion, AP classes are not truly AP.
Yes, You are correct. There are pre-AP classes in middle school. I wonder why they don’t just push it down to kindergarten and be done with it.
In Florida, students do not pay to take their AP exams. Unfortunately, that means many students just sleep through them.
I am not a fan of AP, but that sounds a bit harsh. If students take AP my guess is they want to get the college credit. Why else would they take it?
AP is an out of control monster!, fed by a for-profit zoo-keeper. Many students and parents are under the false assumption that the more AP , the better chances their child has in getting into a brand name college. I argue that some advanced classes In areas of interest and passion, combined with a healthy dose of extracurricular activities and leisure and family time, yield a more well rounded, and ready for post secondary education, human. Colleges need to get on board and take ownership of this madness. What donYou think is going to happen when you state you expect students to take the most rigorous course load at their high school? Coming from a high school that offers 32 advanced placement courses, what do you think happens? Take action. Get this under control. Our children are suffering.
I agree, Peggy. I remember when AP was one or two classes students could take for a taste of college. But now they’re almost expected of children if they are to go to college! What a money-maker too. Why can’t schools offer a variety of classes without going through AP? I think you are correct…it is out of control! Thank you!